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  • Raoul Pal: Why the Crypto Bull Run Is Just Starting, the AI Economic Singularity, and Why You Should Never Sell Bitcoin

    Macro investor and Real Vision co-founder Raoul Pal returned to the When Shift Happens podcast for episode 173 to argue that the recent crypto drawdown is a nasty correction inside a much larger bull market, not the end of the cycle. Across an hour and a half he ties together the AI capital race, the coming economic singularity, why layer one blockchains are a kind of universal basic equity, and the deceptively simple discipline that actually compounds wealth: buy, hold, and almost never sell.

    TLDW

    Pal frames everything through what he calls the universal code, the conversion of units of energy into units of intelligence, and says the global race to fund AI is so large that no government or company can stop feeding it capital. That liquidity, plus relentless currency debasement, is the engine under both the AI stocks going vertical and the crypto market that has lagged them. He calls the Bitcoin slide from 126K toward 60K a normal correction in a bull market, says liquidity is now reaccelerating, and argues smart contract layer ones (Ethereum, Solana, Sui) are the best risk-adjusted bet because the entire financial system and a coming swarm of AI agents will run on those rails, giving crypto an effectively infinite total addressable market. He explains why he added Zcash as a Bitcoin-with-privacy and quantum-proof trade, lays out his plan to launch an NFT fund built around grail digital art and NFT-backed lending, and makes a data-backed case that buying oversold dips and never selling beats trying to trade cycles. The conversation closes on a 70/30 bullish framework for 2026 and 2027 and a reflection on kindness.

    Thoughts

    The strongest idea in this conversation is not a price target, it is a reframe. Pal keeps pulling the camera back from “what will Bitcoin do this quarter” to “what is the organizing principle of the entire economy right now,” and his answer is the funneling of all available capital into anything that produces intelligence. Once you accept that frame, the buy-the-dip behavior in both AI equities and crypto stops looking like mania and starts looking like a rational response to a one-way game. The part worth sitting with is his game-theory claim that neither the US nor China can stop, and that even a spectacular failure like an OpenAI blowup would simply trigger an instant asset auction rather than a collapse, because no single player can be allowed to win outright. Whether or not that is fully true, it is a genuinely different mental model than the recession-and-bust cycle most investors carry around.

    His layer-one thesis is the most actionable takeaway and also the most quietly radical. The pitch is that for the first time ordinary people can own a piece of the core infrastructure that the machine economy will be built on, the way you never got to own a slice of TCP/IP or the open web. He calls this universal basic equity and treats it as humanity’s pension plan. The honest tension he admits is that the racy returns may not be in the boring base layer at all, and that the truly investable winners of this era, the private stablecoin companies, are largely closed off to retail. So the layer-one trade is partly a consolation prize for the fact that the best businesses are unreachable. That is a more candid admission than most crypto bulls will make.

    The behavioral core of the episode is the most useful for a normal reader, and it is almost embarrassingly simple. Pal has been in markets for 35 years and says he does not know a single person who reliably buys bottoms and sells tops, including the legends, who he points out made most of their money on management fees rather than heroic trades. His prescription is to add only when the asset is one to two standard deviations oversold on its long-term log trend, otherwise do nothing, and to treat patience as an action rather than inaction. The line that does the most work is “the market owes you nothing.” It quietly dismantles the entitlement that drives people to overtrade, chase, and burn emotional energy on a strategy that the data says underperforms simply holding.

    Where a reader should keep some skepticism is the certainty. Pal assigns the bull case a 70 percent probability and the bear case 30, but the bear case he sketches (Middle East war reignites, inflation forces tightening, liquidity gets starved, the intelligence buildout slows) is not a minor footnote, it is the whole structure failing at once. The thesis also leans hard on the assumption that AI agents will become massive on-chain economic actors, which is plausible but still mostly forward-looking rather than observed. The value here is the framework, not the forecast. If you take one thing, take the energy-into-intelligence lens and the standard-deviation discipline, and hold the specific tickers and timelines loosely.

    Key Takeaways

    • Pal’s central frame is the universal code: the universe, and now the economy, continuously converts units of energy into units of intelligence, and capital flows to whatever produces the most intelligence.
    • The AI buildout is a race of nations and corporations that nobody can exit. Game theory means neither the US nor China can stop, because the other side would gain a decisive advantage.
    • Even a catastrophic AI failure would not break the trend. If OpenAI ran out of money, its assets would be auctioned instantly to multiple buyers so no single company could double its compute and win the whole game.
    • The economic singularity is the point where institutions and the way we measure the economy can no longer keep up with the speed of technology, made worse when AI and robots are added to the population as economic actors.
    • AI is the first real-world example of Reed’s law, the exponential of the exponential, where most past technology followed the slower Metcalfe’s law log channel.
    • By around 2028, roughly five to six years after AI went mainstream, AI will have produced more words than all of humanity has produced in sum total since the Gutenberg press.
    • The current run is funded by cash flow, not debt. Unlike the late-1990s tech boom, the buildout is paid for out of the earnings of the most cash-generative firms in history.
    • Chips and energy are the binding constraints. Companies report being booked out three years and beyond, and xAI is reportedly handing older data centers to Anthropic because no one can get enough compute.
    • Pal expects the Fed to run a Greenspan-style playbook, cut rates and then get out of the way, letting a productivity miracle grow the economy faster than the debt pile so debt to GDP falls.
    • Bitcoin falling from 126K toward 60K is a nasty correction in a bull market, not a bear market. Pal has seen many 50 percent Bitcoin drawdowns since 2013, and altcoins always fall further on the risk curve.
    • The 2025 to 2026 correction has been choppy and slow rather than the fast V-shape of 2021, which is part of why sentiment feels so bad.
    • Crypto lagged because liquidity is finite. The government shutdown withdrew liquidity, which hits crypto with about a three-month lag, while AI capex and Chinese gold buying sucked capital away.
    • Liquidity is now reaccelerating in the US, China, and globally, which Pal sees as the reason the worst is likely over for crypto.
    • The birth of economic agents in late 2024 gives crypto an effectively infinite total addressable market, since agents will be economic actors that hold treasuries, make payments, and transact on-chain.
    • Smart contract layer ones are Pal’s preferred bet. He compares the structure to operating systems and cloud, where value concentrates into three to five major players plus a few specialists.
    • He calls owning layer ones universal basic equity and humanity’s pension plan, the chance to own the rails the agentic economy will run on, something the internet never offered retail.
    • Discounted cash flow analysis is the wrong tool for valuing a blockchain. The whole purpose of the network is to be the cheapest, fastest, and most programmable, so high fees are a bug, not a strength.
    • Pal measures layer ones by intelligence density: number of developers, programmability, speed to finality, applications per user, and the ratio of stablecoins to total value locked as stored energy.
    • Only three tokens maintained economic density when the market fell 80 percent: Ethereum, Solana, and Sui. ETH is the safe Microsoft-like choice, Solana is faster and cheaper, Sui is earlier but extremely fast and programmable.
    • Pal added Zcash in the correction as a Bitcoin-with-privacy trade. The left-curve case is simple privacy value, the right-curve case is that it is also quantum-proof and a hedge against AI-enabled state surveillance.
    • He admits he did not execute the Zcash buy well, kept meaning to add more while traveling, and watched it run up 50 percent. He treats it as a small position, not a portfolio overhaul.
    • On Hyperliquid he is complimentary but uninvested, because he does not trade, use perps, or use leverage, and he expects Robinhood and Coinbase to compete hard for that niche.
    • DeFi is better suited to machines than humans. Agents may not even need front ends or websites, just low-friction access to swap across multiple stablecoins and currencies instantly.
    • DeFi is not dead despite mega-hacks. Pal argues hacks force better products, and notes that banks quietly absorb theft losses too, so the answer is to build more secure systems.
    • The entire financial system is moving to blockchain rails because they are the most efficient way to operate, a prediction Pal first made in 2014 before smart contracts existed.
    • Pal is launching an NFT fund focused on grail assets (one-of-one alien CryptoPunks, top artists) trading from roughly 600K to tens of millions, plus a convex middle tier of artists with social consensus.
    • He names artists like Dies with the most likes (whom he compares to a Hunter S. Thompson of art) and Kim Asendorf, whose work uses tokens at the pixel level.
    • The fund will also lend against NFTs for yields around 15 percent or more, acquiring assets cheaply if borrowers default and recycling yield into emerging artists.
    • His real estate analogy: a smaller NFT in a great collection is like a modest apartment in a billionaire neighborhood, while grails are the 20 million dollar penthouses that actually compound.
    • Bitcoin is partly an AI proxy because global savings should rise as AI lifts economic growth, and Bitcoin targets a share of those savings as a digital store of value.
    • The core mindset shift: if you know where the world is going and roughly where market cap is heading on the log trend, you would never sell, you would only ever accumulate.
    • Selling well is nearly impossible. Even if you take profit at two standard deviations overbought, adding it back at the bottom is something almost no one actually manages.
    • The people who made the most money in crypto are the ones who did not trade it. Pal cites holders who profited by doing essentially nothing while active traders lost their edge.
    • Pal’s discipline requires roughly two to three actions every five years: add when one to two standard deviations oversold, optionally trim when two standard deviations overbought, otherwise nothing.
    • By his standard deviation measure, Bitcoin and crypto are as cheap as they have been in their long-term uptrend versus the NASDAQ, which he reads as a signal to allocate more to crypto.
    • Fear and greed sat below 10 for the longest stretch in the index’s history during this correction, hitting its lowest reading ever, a classic oversold extreme.
    • His 2026 to 2027 bull case stacks stablecoin explosion, the Clarity Act getting signed, rising global liquidity, debt rollovers forcing money printing, a strong business cycle, AI agents, and a cheap entry point. He puts it at roughly 70/30 to the upside.

    Detailed Summary

    Two economies and the money illusion

    The conversation opens loosely with travel, stablecoin spending, and a riff on why people agonize over a 75 dollar airport breakfast but happily lose money on an NFT that drops 80 percent. Pal’s explanation is that we live in two economies at once. The crypto and tech economy can grow 50 to 150 percent in a good year, while the real economy grows around 2 percent. Money earned in the fast economy does not feel real, which is why people spend and speculate so freely with it. This sets up the rest of the episode, where Pal treats the fast economy as the place serious capital is being forced to go.

    The AI capital race nobody can stop

    Asked why the stock market only seems to go up, Pal gives two reasons: liquidity expansion and the most extraordinary capital event in human history, the funneling of all capital into intelligence. He frames it as a race of nations, corporations, and individuals that cannot be slowed because of game theory. No superpower can let another reach AGI alone, only the US and China can afford the race, and neither can stop without ceding the advantage. He even games out an OpenAI bankruptcy and concludes the US would instantly auction the assets across many buyers rather than let one firm double its compute and win, which is why he calls the whole thing too big to fail. The practical conclusion is blunt: buy the dip, because the structure forces capital to keep flowing.

    The economic singularity, Reed’s law, and electricity through sand

    Pal defines the economic singularity as the moment when institutions and our economic measurements can no longer cope with the speed of technology, especially once AI and robots count as population. He explains that almost all past technology adoption followed Metcalfe’s law, a log channel visible in the charts of Google, Facebook, and the NASDAQ, but AI is the first observed example of Reed’s law, the exponential of the exponential. To make it concrete he cites ARK research showing AI will, by roughly 2028, have produced more words per year than all of humanity, and notes Anthropic expected 10x growth and got 80x in a quarter. He marvels that we are putting electricity through silicon, the second most common element on Earth, and producing intelligence six orders of magnitude faster than a human neuron.

    Why crypto lagged and why the worst is over

    Pal explains the crypto underperformance mechanically. There is only so much liquidity, the government shutdown withdrew it, and that hits crypto with roughly a three-month lag, landing right in the middle of the October drawdown. At the same time, the AI buildout and Chinese gold buying pulled capital toward the longest-duration assets, leaving SaaS and crypto with nearly identical charts as they got left behind. His read for 2026 is that liquidity is now reaccelerating across the US, China, and the world, so there is nothing to worry about yet. The Bitcoin move from 126K toward 60K is, in his framing, a normal correction, comparable in length to the roughly six-month 2021 pullback that resolved into new highs.

    Layer ones as universal basic equity

    The heart of the investment thesis is that smart contract layer ones will accrue a growing share of crypto value as the investable infrastructure layer. Pal argues the entire financial system plus a coming swarm of AI agents will use these rails, giving crypto an infinite total addressable market. Like operating systems and cloud, value will concentrate into three to five chains plus specialists. He measures them by intelligence density rather than discounted cash flow, since the point of the network is to be cheapest and fastest. By his analysis only Ethereum, Solana, and Sui held economic density through an 80 percent drawdown. ETH wins on developers, security, and Lindy effects (the Microsoft you do not get fired for owning), Solana is faster and cheaper, and Sui is earlier but offers a different order of magnitude on speed, finality, and programmability. He frames owning a basket of four or five as humanity’s pension plan.

    Zcash, privacy, and the quantum hedge

    Pal reveals he added Zcash during the correction, alongside buying more Sui. He had said in December he would wait for it to pull back, and he did, though he admits he did not buy enough as it ran up 50 percent. His left-curve case is that privacy has real value and people will understand it more, making it essentially Bitcoin with privacy that could plausibly reach 5 to 10 percent of Bitcoin’s value. His right-curve case is that it is also quantum-proof and a hedge against governments wielding AI-enabled control over people. He dismisses the mid-curve worry that it will be banned, noting that the ban fear has shadowed crypto his entire career and never materialized.

    Agents, DeFi, and financial rails

    Pal argues the biggest future users of DeFi and crypto payments will be AI agents, whose scale is effectively infinite. Setting up agents himself, he keeps hitting walls that require small payments, and sees agents making endless micro-payments plus larger transactions, holding treasuries across multiple stablecoins and currencies, and rebalancing through DeFi instantly without any human involved. DeFi, he says, is actually better suited to machines than people, and may not even need front ends. On the wave of mega-hacks he is unbothered, arguing they force better products, that banks quietly absorb theft too, and that the financial system always migrates to the most efficient rails because that is how you make more money. He first predicted blockchain would become the financial industry’s infrastructure rail back in 2014.

    The NFT fund and grail digital art

    Pal is launching an NFT fund because so many people told him they want exposure but do not know how. The fund targets grail assets, the scarce one-of-one pieces with proven social consensus that trade from around 600K into the tens of millions, plus a convex middle tier of artists who have long-term proven value and could be wildly re-rated. He names Dies with the most likes, an Indiana artist cataloging the decline of middle America whom he likens to Hunter S. Thompson, and German artist Kim Asendorf, whose 3D works are built from individually tokenized pixels. The math of convexity is the draw: an artist re-rating from 20 to 200 ETH while ETH itself multiplies could compound into a 100x. The fund will also lend against NFTs for yields above 15 percent, acquiring assets cheaply on default and recycling yield into emerging artists, and will build a club connecting investors to artists. His real estate framing reassures smaller holders: owning a lesser piece in a top collection is like a modest flat in a billionaire neighborhood.

    Never sell, and the math of patience

    The behavioral spine of the episode is Pal’s argument that buying, holding, and accumulating beats trading cycles. He has built a Real Vision indicator that signals a buy when an asset is one to two standard deviations oversold on its log regression channel, and says it compounds at a stupid rate. The problem with selling is deciding how much and then having the discipline to buy it back at the bottom, which almost no one does. In 35 years he says he has never met anyone who reliably buys bottoms and sells tops, and notes the trading legends made most of their money on management fees. The people who made the most in crypto are the ones who did nothing. He reframes holding as patience, an active stance, and ties it back to the universal code: buying Bitcoin and doing nothing is the most energy-efficient trade you can make, while overtrading burns mental and emotional energy for a worse outcome. His advice to those tempted by AI’s vertical charts is to go play with AI and just hold your Bitcoin.

    The 2026 to 2027 outlook

    Pal closes the macro case by stacking the bull factors: a massive stablecoin expansion over the next 24 months, the Clarity Act getting signed and freeing builders, rising global liquidity, trillions in interest payments that force more money printing, a strong business cycle recycling earnings into speculative assets, the arrival of AI agents, and a cheap entry point with fear and greed at historic lows. He even floats a permanent resolution of Middle East conflict as part of the upside. The bear case is the mirror image: war reignites, inflation runs hotter, tightening starves capital, and the intelligence buildout slows. He puts the odds at roughly 70 percent bullish, 30 percent bearish, and says he does not see the bear case yet. The episode ends on a personal note about kindness, with Pal unable to name a single kindest act because, he says, everything is made of kindness.

    Notable Quotes

    “We’re going through the most extraordinary time in human history. Nothing else matters. This whole funneling of all capital into intelligence is the biggest race that’s ever happened.”

    Raoul Pal, on why capital keeps flooding into AI

    “The game is so big that nobody will stop.”

    Raoul Pal, on the game theory of the US and China AI race

    “This is how amazing it is. We’re putting electricity through sand and creating intelligence.”

    Raoul Pal, on silicon and the universal code

    “It’s a nasty correction in a bull market. I’ve been in crypto since 2013. I’ve seen many corrections, non-bear markets of 50% in Bitcoin.”

    Raoul Pal, on Bitcoin falling from 126K toward 60K

    “The market owes you nothing. You would just have to be better at doing a job.”

    Raoul Pal, on the entitlement that ruins crypto investors

    “This is humanity’s pension plan. We get to invest in the infrastructure rails of which all the agentic economy will run.”

    Raoul Pal, on owning layer one blockchains

    “The people who’ve made the most money out of crypto are the people who don’t trade it.”

    Raoul Pal, on why holding beats trading

    “Your job is to be a mercenary for your own capital. You want to make the most money over time.”

    Raoul Pal, on why no one has to stay loyal to crypto

    “Bitcoin and crypto is as cheap as it has been in its long-term uptrend versus NASDAQ.”

    Raoul Pal, on the relative value signal he watches

    This is a compressed look at a wide-ranging conversation. Watch the full episode on When Shift Happens here for Pal’s complete reasoning, the charts he references, and the back-and-forth that the summary above leaves out.

    Related Reading

    • Real Vision the financial media platform Raoul Pal co-founded, where his Global Macro Investor research and exponential age thesis live.
    • Metcalfe’s law (Wikipedia) the network-value relationship Pal uses to model the log regression channel for crypto.
    • Reed’s law (Wikipedia) background on the exponential-of-the-exponential growth Pal says AI is the first real-world example of.
    • Technological singularity (Wikipedia) context for the economic singularity Pal argues is now only about four years away.
    • Zcash the privacy coin Pal added in the correction as a Bitcoin-with-privacy and quantum-proof trade.

  • Gavin Baker on Orbital Compute, TSMC, Frontier AI Models, Anthropic’s Vertical Take Off, and the Coming Wafer Shortage

    Gavin Baker, founder and CIO of Atreides Management, returns to Patrick O’Shaughnessy’s Invest Like the Best for his sixth appearance. He calls the current AI moment the most extraordinary moment in the history of capitalism, walks through what Anthropic’s vertical takeoff in revenue actually means, lays out why orbital compute is closer than skeptics believe, dissects the TSMC bottleneck that may be the only thing standing between today’s market and a full-on AI bubble, and rates every hyperscaler on how they have positioned for a world where frontier model providers may stop selling API access altogether.

    TLDW

    Anthropic added eleven billion dollars of ARR in a single month, which is roughly the combined business of Palantir, Snowflake, and Databricks built over a decade. That is the setup. From there Gavin Baker covers the March and April selloff, the contrarian read that a closed Strait of Hormuz was actually bullish for American manufacturing competitiveness, why Anthropic and OpenAI multiples may be misleadingly cheap on an unconstrained run rate basis, why Elon Musk’s discipline on SpaceX valuation created a superpower of permanent access to capital, the practical engineering case for orbital compute as racks in space rather than Pentagon sized space stations, why TSMC’s capacity discipline is the single most important variable in whether the AI cycle becomes a bubble, what Terafab in Texas changes, why the Pareto frontier of AI models has flipped from Google dominance to Anthropic and OpenAI dominance in nine months, the shift from all you can eat AI subscriptions to usage based pricing and what that means for revenue scaling, Richard Sutton’s bitter lesson as the largest risk to the AI trade, why frontier tokens still capture an overwhelming share of economic value, the role of continual learning as the third great open question, why most new chip startups should not try to build a better GPU, why Cerebras did something different and hard, why disaggregated inference may extend GPU useful lives to ten or fifteen years and rescue the private credit industry, why being in the token path is the new venture filter, the new prisoner’s dilemma around releasing frontier models via API, an honest rating of Google, Meta, Amazon, and Microsoft, why personal safety is becoming a real AI era risk, and why he remains an AI optimist maximalist who believes this could be the next Pax Americana.

    Key Takeaways

    • Anthropic added eleven billion dollars of ARR in one month, more than the combined businesses of Palantir, Snowflake, and Databricks built across a decade. There is no precedent for this in the history of capitalism.
    • The SaaS and cloud revolution created between five and ten trillion dollars of value over twenty years. AI is replaying that compression on a timeline measured in months.
    • The March selloff was a drawdown driven by disagreement with price action, not invalidated thesis. That is the kind of drawdown an investor can lean into.
    • Deep Seek Monday in January 2025 was a similar setup. By the day of the selloff, AWS Asia GPU prices had already doubled, GPU availability had fallen, and it was obvious reasoning models would be vastly more compute hungry at inference. The market priced the opposite.
    • The Strait of Hormuz closing was actually positive for America. US natural gas (the primary input into US electricity, which feeds AI) fell twenty percent on Bloomberg while Asian and European natural gas doubled or tripled. American manufacturing competitiveness improved overnight.
    • The US is now the world’s largest producer and exporter of oil and gas. The economy is dramatically less energy intensive than in the 1970s. The shortage trauma comparison does not hold.
    • Tech as a sector traded as cheaply versus the rest of the market in early April as at any point in the last ten years, into the single most bullish moment for AI fundamentals on record.
    • Anthropic is dramatically more capital efficient than OpenAI, having burned roughly eighty percent less to reach a similar revenue scale. They have very different structural returns on invested capital.
    • Anthropic at roughly nine hundred billion for fifty billion of ARR (growing a thousand percent) is striking. Adjusted for compute constraint, the unconstrained run rate could be one hundred fifty to two hundred billion, putting the implied multiple closer to five times.
    • Claude Opus generates roughly seventy percent fewer tokens for the same question than previously, with token quantity tied to answer quality. Subscribers on flat-fee plans are getting a lobotomized model.
    • Elon Musk’s superpower is twenty years of making investors money. He never pushes valuation. SpaceX compounded low thirty percent per year for a decade because Musk treats fair pricing as a sacred covenant.
    • Capitalism will solve the watts shortage. The current bottleneck has shifted from chips and energy to zoning and political approval. Many capex decisions are paused until after the US midterms.
    • The watts shortage probably begins to alleviate in 2027 and 2028. Orbital compute solves it longer term.
    • Orbital compute is not Pentagon sized data centers in space. It is racks in space. A Blackwell rack is three thousand pounds, eight feet tall, four feet deep, three feet wide. SpaceX has shown a satellite roughly that size.
    • The satellites operate in sun synchronous orbit so solar wings (around five hundred feet per side) always face the sun and the radiator on the dark side always points to deep space.
    • Starlink V3 satellites already run at around twenty kilowatts. A Blackwell rack runs at one hundred kilowatts. SpaceX engineers express genuine confidence they have already solved cooling and radiator design at these scales.
    • Racks in space are connected with lasers traveling through vacuum, the same lasers already on every Starlink. SpaceX operates the world’s largest satellite fleet and, via xAI Colossus, the world’s largest data center on Earth.
    • Inference will move to orbit. Training will stay on Earth for a long time. Terrestrial data centers remain valuable for the rest of an investor’s career.
    • The wafer bottleneck is structural and political. TSMC is essentially Taiwan’s GDP, water, and electricity. The leaders see themselves as inheritors of Morris Chang’s sacred legacy and they do not behave like a Western public company.
    • Jensen Huang has never had a contract with TSMC. The relationship is run on handshakes and the assumption that things will be fair over time.
    • If TSMC did everything Jensen wanted, Nvidia could be selling two to three trillion dollars of GPUs in 2026 and 2027. TSMC’s discipline is the single largest factor preventing a true AI bubble.
    • Historically, foundational technologies always get a bubble. Railroads, canals, the internet. The current AI buildout is overwhelmingly funded out of operating cash flow, GPUs are running at one hundred percent utilization, and that is fundamentally different from the year 2000 fiber overbuild.
    • If one of Intel or Samsung Foundry catches up at the leading node, the other will follow, and TSMC’s discipline collapses. Watch TSMC capacity decisions to predict a bubble.
    • Terafab, the SpaceX and Tesla joint venture to build the world’s largest fab in America, has a partnership with Intel that grants access to fifty years of institutional foundry knowledge. The A teams at ASML, KLA, Lam Research, and Applied Materials will follow Elon’s reputation in hardware engineering.
    • The hiring playbook for Terafab includes building Taiwan Town, Japan Town, and Korea Town next to the fab. Recruit the engineers and import their families, their restaurants, and their staff.
    • Frontier tokens still capture an overwhelming share of all economic value created at the model layer. This is surprising and is one of the three big open questions for AI investing.
    • The Pareto frontier of intelligence versus cost has flipped. Nine months ago Google’s TPU dominated every point on the frontier. Today Anthropic and OpenAI dominate, with Grok 4.3 on the frontier and Gemini 3.1 hanging on.
    • Google’s conservative TPU V8 design (partly an attempt to reduce dependence on Broadcom and Nvidia) is the leading explanation for the loss of per token cost leadership.
    • AI pricing is shifting from all you can eat to usage based, mirroring the cellular and long distance industries. Cellular stopped being a great growth industry when it went all you can eat. AI just made the opposite move.
    • OpenAI and Anthropic together could exceed two hundred billion in ARR this year if compute keeps coming online and frontier token pricing holds.
    • The two hundred fifty dollar a month consumer AI plan is no longer enough to evaluate frontier capability. Enterprise plans with usage based billing are required because rate limits are now severe.
    • The three biggest open questions for AI investors are: violation of the bitter lesson via ASI or human ingenuity, whether frontier tokens keep commanding their premium, and when continual learning arrives.
    • Today’s continual learning is crude reinforcement learning during mid training on verifiable tasks. True continual learning means weights updating dynamically, like a human who learns the first time they touch fire.
    • Trying to build a better GPU is a losing strategy. Jensen will copy any one to three percent share design. Startups should target one percent share, do something different, and make it hard enough that Nvidia cannot fast follow.
    • Disaggregated inference (separating prefill and decode) opens new design canvases. Prefill is memory capacity bound. Decode is memory bandwidth bound. Each can be optimized independently.
    • Cerebras did something different and hard with wafer scale computing. Three generations of chips and real grit to get there.
    • Disaggregation of inference may stretch GPU useful lives to ten or fifteen years, dropping financing costs from low sevens to five or six percent, mathematically lowering the cost of the AI buildout and likely saving the private credit industry from its SaaS loan exposure.
    • Sellers of shortage outperform buyers of shortage. But owning the largest installed base of what is currently in shortage (hyperscaler CPU fleets, for example) is also a strong position.
    • Most of the economic value at the application layer of AI has been destroyed, not created. The exceptions are companies in the token path or in niches small enough that frontier labs ignore them.
    • Coding may be the shortest path to ASI. If you can write code, you can write code that does anything. Cursor, Cognition, and Anthropic correctly focused on it.
    • Jensen could probably get close to the frontier with his own Nemotron family of models whenever he wants. The fact that he chooses not to is a strategic decision about not commoditizing his customers.
    • The new prisoner’s dilemma in AI is whether frontier labs release their best model via API. If everyone agrees not to, Chinese open source falls behind. If anyone defects, the defector pulls ahead on revenue and resources, forcing everyone else to defect.
    • Google still owns the largest compute installed base. Without TPU’s prior cost advantage, this matters more. YouTube data has real value in a world of robotics. GCP is going crazy.
    • Meta deserves credit for becoming AI first internally faster than any other internet giant. Musa, their first MSL model, is impressively close to the Pareto frontier.
    • Amazon is strong because of Trainium and robotics driven retail P&L efficiency. Nova is better than it gets credit for.
    • Microsoft flinched on capex in early 2025 and lost position. Satya Nadella’s current decision to use Microsoft compute for Microsoft products rather than reselling to OpenAI is a courageous and probably correct call, even at the cost of an eight hundred dollar stock price.
    • The hyperscalers most engaged with startups are Amazon and Nvidia by a mile, followed by Google. Broadcom is the favorite ASIC partner. AMD, Microsoft, and Meta have minimal startup engagement and that will cost them as the best teams are now at startups.
    • Personal safety in an AI era requires a family or company safe word that cannot be socially engineered. Deepfake voice and video extortion at the speed of FaceTime is already feasible.
    • Ukraine is winning largely on the back of having the best battlefield AI outside America and Israel. Adversaries are starting to internalize what AI dominance means geopolitically.
    • An optimistic read is that this becomes a new Pax Americana, the way the post 1945 American nuclear monopoly was used to rebuild Germany and Japan rather than dominate.
    • AI cured a friend’s daughter’s rare disease by spinning up a research effort that identified a market drug capable of impacting her condition. That is the upside that keeps Gavin an AI optimist maximalist.

    Detailed Summary

    The most extraordinary moment in the history of capitalism

    Gavin’s framing of the current moment is unusually direct. Anthropic added eleven billion dollars of annual recurring revenue in a single month. The three highest profile SaaS companies of the last decade plus, Palantir, Snowflake, and Databricks, took a decade and tens of thousands of employees collectively to build the combined business that Anthropic added in thirty days. He has been investing through every major tech cycle and says there is no historical analog. Not the dotcom era, not the cloud transition, not mobile. This is its own thing.

    The market response, then, was peculiar. The NASDAQ sold off into the single most bullish moment for AI fundamentals on record. Tech traded at roughly its widest discount versus the rest of the market in a decade. Investors who said they wished they had bought into AI during 2022, during COVID, or during Deep Seek Monday got the same valuation setup again in early April, this time with an even clearer inflection.

    Why the Strait of Hormuz closing was secretly bullish for America

    One reason the macro fear in March may have been mispriced is that the same geopolitical event that drove the selloff was, in practice, a relative benefit to the United States. American natural gas, the input into American electricity, which is the input into American AI training and inference, fell roughly twenty percent. Asian and European natural gas prices doubled or tripled. The US emerged with sharply improved relative manufacturing competitiveness, which is exactly what the current administration cares about.

    The 1970s comparison does not hold. The US economy is dramatically less energy intensive, it is now the world’s largest producer and largest exporter of oil and gas, and there are no shortages, only price moves. That backdrop made it easier for disciplined investors to stay focused on AI fundamentals through the volatility.

    Anthropic and OpenAI valuations on an unconstrained run rate

    Anthropic at roughly nine hundred billion for fifty billion of ARR sounds rich until you adjust for the fact that the company is severely compute constrained. Gavin estimates that, unconstrained, Anthropic might be at one hundred fifty to two hundred billion in run rate revenue, putting the implied multiple closer to five times. He also points out that Claude Opus now generates roughly seventy percent fewer tokens for the same question than it used to. Token quantity correlates with answer quality, and Anthropic is rate limiting and shrinking outputs to ration capacity across its user base.

    Anthropic and OpenAI are also structurally very different. Anthropic has burned around eighty percent less cash than OpenAI to reach a comparable revenue scale. That implies very different long term returns on invested capital, though OpenAI has done a better job locking in compute and Sarah Friar is one of the most exceptional CFOs Gavin has worked with.

    Why neither lab is raising at a three trillion dollar valuation

    The answer Gavin gives is that both labs are deliberately leaving valuation on the table the way Elon has done for two decades. SpaceX compounded at low thirty percent annually for a decade because Elon never pushed price. The result is a permanent superpower of access to capital. Investors trust him because they have made money with him for twenty years. That is a moat that compounds with every round.

    Anthropic could probably raise at a one hundred percent premium to its rumored latest mark. They are choosing not to. In an uncertain world (Ukraine, Russia, Iran, Taiwan), preserving the ability to raise more capital later at fair prices is more valuable than maximizing this round.

    Watts and wafers, the two real constraints

    Capitalism is solving the watts problem. The leading PE infrastructure investors now say zoning and political approval, not chips or energy, are the gating factors. Companies are deferring big capex announcements until after the US midterms. Turbine capacity is being doubled at the manufacturers. Companies like Boom Aerospace are repurposing jet engines for grid use. Watts probably ease meaningfully in 2027 and 2028 and then orbital compute does the rest.

    Wafers are the harder problem because they live in Taiwan, run on handshakes, and depend on a corporate culture that does not respond to public market incentives. TSMC is essentially the GDP, water consumption, and electricity consumption of Taiwan. Its leadership treats the company as the legacy of Morris Chang. The Silicon Shield doctrine is real and internal.

    Orbital compute as racks in space

    The biggest mental update Gavin asks listeners to make is to stop picturing data centers in space as Pentagon sized space stations. A Blackwell rack is three thousand pounds and roughly the size of a refrigerator. SpaceX has shown a concept satellite of about that size. Solar wings extend five hundred feet to each side and the radiator extends hundreds of feet behind, both possible because the orbit is sun synchronous and the orientation is fixed relative to the sun.

    SpaceX engineers Gavin has spoken to at Starbase express genuine confidence that they have solved cooling at these power levels. They have. Starlink V3 satellites already operate at twenty kilowatts. A Blackwell rack is one hundred kilowatts. The same company operates the world’s largest satellite fleet and the world’s largest data center on Earth via xAI Colossus. The racks are connected to each other with lasers traveling through vacuum, technology already deployed in every Starlink. The naysayers, Gavin observes, are armchair skeptics and Larry Ellison’s response (he is out there landing rockets, no one else is) is the right frame.

    Terafab in Texas and the threat to TSMC’s discipline

    Terafab, the SpaceX and Tesla joint venture, intends to be the largest fab in the world. The partnership with Intel grants access to fifty years of foundry institutional knowledge, allowing Terafab to start three to five quarters behind the leading node rather than fifteen years behind. The A teams at the semicap equipment companies (ASML, KLA, Lam Research, Applied Materials) will follow Elon’s reputation in hardware engineering the same way they followed TSMC twenty years ago when Intel stumbled.

    The talent strategy is the part most observers underestimate. Recruit the best engineers globally, then import their families, their restaurants, their staff. Build Taiwan Town, Japan Town, and Korea Town next to the fab. Optimize the human experience for the people whose work matters. Intel and Samsung do not think that way.

    Bubble watch and the year 2000 comparison

    Every foundational technology in modern history has had a bubble. Railroads, canals, the internet. Carlota Perez documented why. Markets correctly identify the importance, diversity of opinion collapses, supply gets ahead of demand, the bubble crashes. The current cycle has two important differences. The buildout is overwhelmingly funded out of operating cash flow, not debt. Every GPU is running at one hundred percent utilization, while at the peak of the fiber bubble ninety nine percent of fiber was unused.

    TSMC discipline is the single largest reason a bubble has not formed. If Jensen could buy everything TSMC could theoretically make, Nvidia could sell two to three trillion dollars of GPUs in 2026 and 2027. At some point that becomes more than the market can absorb. If Intel or Samsung Foundry catches up at the leading node, the other will too. TSMC’s pricing discipline collapses and the bubble starts.

    The Pareto frontier and the loss of Google’s cost advantage

    The most important chart in AI is the Pareto frontier of model intelligence versus per token cost. Nine months ago, Google’s TPU based models dominated every point on it. OpenAI, Anthropic, and xAI sat inside the frontier. Today the frontier is dominated by Anthropic and OpenAI, with Grok 4.3 on the frontier and Gemini 3.1 hanging on by subsidization more than economics. The most likely cause is Google’s conservative TPU V8 design, an attempt to reduce dependence on Broadcom and Nvidia that sacrificed per token economics.

    The bitter lesson, frontier tokens, and continual learning

    Three open questions dominate AI investing. The first is whether Richard Sutton’s bitter lesson (more compute beats human algorithmic cleverness) gets violated by ASI itself optimizing for efficiency. Closer observers of AI are more skeptical of a violation. Gavin thinks ASI’s first move will be to make itself more efficient and more resourced, which is technically a temporary violation.

    The second is whether frontier tokens keep capturing the overwhelming share of economic value at the model layer. Today they do, surprisingly. Gemini 3.1 Pro was mindblowing nine months ago and is intolerable today. The third is when continual learning arrives. Today’s models need a million fire touches to learn what a human learns from one. True continual learning would mean dynamic weight updates in real time and would produce a fast takeoff.

    From all you can eat to usage based AI pricing

    AI is shifting from flat fee plans to usage based pricing. The historical analogy is cellular and long distance. Both stopped being great growth industries when they went all you can eat. AI just made the opposite move. The consequence is that flat fee subscribers, even on premium consumer plans, get a rate limited and token throttled version of the frontier model. Enterprise plans with usage based billing are now required to evaluate true capability. Gavin thinks the combination of new compute coming online and usage based pricing is what gets OpenAI and Anthropic past two hundred billion in combined ARR this year.

    Chip startups, prefill decode disaggregation, and Cerebras

    Trying to build a better GPU is the wrong move. The four scaled players (Nvidia, AMD, Trainium, TPU) have copy capability for any one to three percent share design that looks attractive. The good news for startups is that disaggregated inference (separating prefill and decode) opens a richer design canvas. Prefill is memory capacity bound. Decode is memory bandwidth bound. Each can be optimized independently. Andrew Fox’s analogy is a British naval ship of the eighteenth century. Prefill is loading the cannon. Decode is firing it.

    Cerebras is the model. Wafer scale computing is genuinely different and genuinely hard. It took three generations of chips to get right. Andrew Feldman and his team had the grit to keep going through chip one being a failure. The design has a high ratio of on chip compute and memory relative to shoreline IO, which is why Cerebras is now experimenting with putting an optical wafer on top of the compute wafer to solve scale out.

    GPU useful lives and the rescue of private credit

    One of the strongest claims in the conversation is that disaggregated inference will stretch GPU useful lives to ten or fifteen years. The skeptical narrative (GPUs are obsolete in two years, companies are cooking their depreciation books) is wrong. You can put a Cerebras system or Groq LPU in front of older Hopper or Ampere parts, use them only for prefill, and run them until they physically melt. Private credit, which is in pain from SaaS loans and which underwrote GPU loans on three to four year lives, may be saved by this.

    If GPU financing rates can come down from low sevens to five or six percent, the mathematics of the AI buildout improves materially. That is a structural tailwind that compounds for years.

    The application layer, the token path, and a new prisoner’s dilemma

    Trillions of dollars of value have been destroyed at the application layer, not created. Cursor and Cognition are the rare scaled exceptions, and they got there by focusing on coding very early. As Amjad Masad noted, coding is plausibly the shortest path to ASI because a coding agent can write itself into any new domain. Jamin Ball’s frame is that the new venture filter is whether the company is in the token path. Data Bricks is. Most application layer startups are not.

    Jensen could probably get close to the frontier with Nemotron whenever he wants, and the strategic question of whether to do that is a new prisoner’s dilemma. If every frontier lab agrees not to release best models via API, Chinese open source falls steadily behind. If anyone defects, the defector gains revenue and resources, and everyone else has to defect. The same dynamic exists between TSMC, Intel, and Samsung. If Nvidia or AMD ever truly used an alternative foundry, that foundry would catch up rapidly.

    Rating the hyperscalers

    Google has the largest compute installed base, the YouTube data that matters in a robotics world, and a search business that prints. Their loss of TPU cost leadership is the surprise of the year. If Google IO in five days does not produce a leapfrog model, the Nvidia centric narrative gets even stronger.

    Meta deserves real credit. Zuckerberg made Meta AI first internally faster than any other internet giant, paid up for the talent contracts when no one else would, and shipped Musa as a first model from MSL that is close to the Pareto frontier. Amazon is well positioned on Trainium, robotics in retail, and a Nova model line that is better than it gets credit for. Microsoft flinched on capex in early 2025 and lost position. Satya Nadella’s current decision to use Microsoft compute for Copilot rather than reselling to OpenAI is courageous and probably correct, even at the cost of stock price.

    The most interesting cross hyperscaler metric is startup engagement. Nvidia and Amazon engage deeply with startups. Google is next. Broadcom is the favored ASIC partner. AMD, Microsoft, and Meta have minimal startup engagement, which Gavin believes will cost them as the best teams now sit at startups.

    Personal safety, geopolitics, and the Pax Americana case

    The closing section turns darker. Personal safety in an AI era requires a family or company safe word that cannot be socially engineered. Deepfake voice and video extortion via something that looks exactly like your child calling on FaceTime is already feasible. Political violence against AI leaders is a real concern. Geopolitically, Ukraine is winning largely because it has the best battlefield AI outside America and Israel. How adversaries respond to that asymmetry is the next great variable.

    Gavin’s optimistic frame is the Pax Americana. After 1945 the US had a nuclear monopoly and could have controlled the world. Instead it rebuilt Germany and Japan, both of which became the most reliable American allies for the next eighty years. If AI dominance plays out similarly, this is a generationally positive story rather than a destabilizing one. The personal anecdote that closes the conversation is a friend whose daughter was diagnosed with a rare genetic condition. He spun up agents, identified a drug already on the market that addresses her mutation, and her life is immeasurably different because of AI. That is the upside.

    Thoughts

    The Anthropic eleven billion in a month framing is the kind of stat that resets priors. The right way to interpret it is not as a one off but as a measure of how fast value can compound when the underlying technology improves on a curve steeper than the ability of the rest of the economy to absorb it. The skeptical question is whether that ARR is durable or whether it is heavily tied to a customer base of other AI companies that are themselves on a single venture funded year of runway. The bullish answer is that frontier coding, frontier research, and frontier enterprise tasks are not going to stop being valuable, and Anthropic is the best at all three. Both can be true. The number is still extraordinary.

    The argument that TSMC discipline is the only thing preventing a bubble is the analytically tightest part of the conversation. The implied trade is to watch TSMC capacity additions like a hawk and to be more, not less, cautious if Intel Foundry or Samsung Foundry ever announce real share at the leading node. The Terafab thesis is more speculative but more interesting. If Elon’s talent recruiting playbook works and the Intel partnership gives Terafab a real seat at the table within five years, the geometry of the global semiconductor industry shifts in a way that is bullish for American manufacturing, bullish for power and water infrastructure in Texas, and ambiguous for TSMC itself.

    The Pareto frontier discussion deserves more attention than it usually gets. Pricing leadership in AI is not a vanity metric. It determines who can subsidize free tier usage, who can absorb compute shortages, who can ship cheaper enterprise plans, and ultimately whose model becomes the default for any given workload. Google losing per token leadership in nine months is one of the most under analyzed events in the sector and it explains a lot about why Anthropic and OpenAI are growing the way they are. If Google IO does not produce a leapfrog model, the implied verdict on TPU V8 design choices gets a lot harsher.

    The application layer destruction point is worth sitting with. Founders building on top of frontier models are competing in a world where the model itself moves faster than any moat they can build, where the model lab can absorb their niche if it gets interesting, and where the only protection is either deep token path integration or a niche so small the lab does not bother. That is a much harsher venture environment than the early SaaS era. The compensating opportunity is that one human can now run a hundred agents, so the ceiling on what a small team can build is correspondingly higher. The bet is that productivity per founder rises faster than competitive pressure from the labs. We will find out.

    The orbital compute pitch is the section that will polarize listeners. The naive read is that this is science fiction. The closer read is that every component (sun synchronous orbit, laser interconnect, twenty kilowatt satellite buses, ten thousand satellite manufacturing cadence, full rocket reusability) already exists. The remaining engineering problems are repair, maintenance, and radiator scale, all of which are real but tractable on a five to ten year horizon. The strategic implication is that the political and zoning ceiling on terrestrial data centers becomes less binding if orbital compute is a credible alternative for inference workloads. The investor implication is that being short the watts and cooling complex on a five year horizon is a real trade, not a meme.

    Watch the full conversation here.

  • Howard Marks on Why Most Investors Lose, the AI Bubble, India, and the Hunt for the $10 Bill Nobody Picked Up

    TLDW

    Howard Marks, co-founder of Oaktree Capital and the author of the memos every serious investor reads first, sat down with Nikhil Kamath for a wide-ranging conversation on his 50+ year career, the philosophy of Mujo (the inevitability of change), why he chose bonds over stocks, the difference between drifting down the river and seeing it, where we sit in the current cycle, AI as both threat and opportunity, why active management lost to indexation, and why the only way to outperform in a world full of smart, motivated, computer-literate competitors is “superior insight.” His core message: investing is a puzzle that cannot be solved by formula, and the only edge that lasts is being more right than the other person, more often, with the discipline to stay calm when everyone else is panicking or partying.

    Key Takeaways

    • Mujo is the operating system. Marks took Japanese literature at Wharton and walked away with one idea that shaped his whole career: change is inevitable, unpredictable, and uncontrollable. You cannot predict the future, but you can prepare for it.
    • Cycles are excesses and corrections, not ups and downs. The S&P 500 has averaged about 10% per year for 100 years, but it is almost never between 8% and 12% in any given year. The norm is not the average. Greed and fear push the pendulum past equilibrium every time.
    • The recovery is two years older. When asked where we are in the cycle, Marks notes the bull market continued from April 2024 through January 2026, so by definition we are deeper into the cycle, with a recovery distorted by the unique man-made COVID recession.
    • Drifting versus seeing the river. Marks describes the first 35 years of his career (roughly age 14 to 49) as drifting. Starting Oaktree in 1995 was the first truly intentional decision he made. Entrepreneurship forced proactivity on him.
    • Why bonds over equities. The contractual, predictable nature of debt suited his conservative temperament (his parents were adults during the Depression). He was not voluntarily moved to bonds in 1978; a boss reassigned him just in time for the birth of the high-yield bond market.
    • Distressed debt is the bigger story. Bruce Karsh joined in 1987 and has run roughly $70 billion in distressed debt since 1988, with profits well over 90% of the total profit and loss.
    • Excess return is getting paid more than the risk warrants. If the market thinks a borrower has a 5% default probability and you correctly conclude it is 2%, you collect interest priced for 5% risk while taking 2% risk. That gap is the alpha.
    • Oaktree’s default rate is about a third of the market. Over 40 years, roughly 3.6% to 3.7% of high-yield bonds default each year. Oaktree’s rate is roughly one-third of that, achieved through process discipline, institutional memory, and analysts who stay analysts for life.
    • If you are starting a career today, understand AI. Marks says the investor who will make the most money over the next 10 years is the one who best understands AI and its capabilities, whether they bet for or against it.
    • AI is excellent at pattern matching, but cannot create new patterns. Can AI pick the Amazon out of five business plans? The Steve Jobs out of five CEOs? Marks bets no. Most humans cannot either, which means there is still a role for exceptional people.
    • Indexation won because active management lost. Passive did not become dominant because it is brilliant. It dominated because most active managers failed and charged high fees for the privilege.
    • Bad times create openings for active managers, but most cannot take them. Panic drives prices down, but the same panic prevents most investors from buying. Wally Deemer: when the time comes to buy, you will not want to.
    • The job is simple but not easy. Find the best managers, the best companies, the best ideas. Charlie Munger told Marks: anyone who thinks it is easy is stupid.
    • Where is the $10 bill nobody picked up? Marks thinks it is around AI, but only for those with insight above the average. If you are average and you crowd into AI, you get average results in a bull case and worse in a bear case.
    • Quantitative information about the present cannot produce alpha. Andrew Marks (howards son) pointed this out to his father during the COVID lockdown. Everyone has the same data. Outperformance has to come from somewhere else.
    • Buffett’s edge was reading Moody’s Manuals when nobody else would. The pre-internet research process favored those willing to do tedious work alone. The format of the edge changes; the fact that edge requires doing what others will not, does not.
    • You cannot coach height. Marks can tell you that second-level thinking, contrarian insight, and the ability to evolve at 80 are essential. He cannot tell you how to acquire any of them.
    • India: Marks declines to opine. He has deployed roughly $4 billion in India but refuses to claim expertise on the Indian stock market or recommend a sector.
    • History rhymes. Marks credits Mark Twain. The lessons that repeat are lessons of human nature, which changes incredibly slowly.
    • Investing is a puzzle, not dentistry. Quoting Taleb, Marks observes that engineers and dentists succeed by repeating the right answer. Investors face a problem with no certain solution. If you need to be right every time, do not become an investor.

    Detailed Summary

    From Queens to Wharton: The Accidental Investor

    Howard Marks grew up in Queens, New York, in a middle-class family. Neither of his parents went to college, but his father was an intelligent accountant. Marks discovered accounting in high school, fell in love with its orderliness, and chose Wharton because he was told it was the best undergraduate business school in America. Wharton required a literature class in a foreign country and a non-business minor. For reasons he no longer remembers, Marks chose Japanese studies, then took Japanese civilization and Japanese art. He calls it the most important academic decision of his life because of one concept he encountered: Mujo.

    Mujo, Independence of Events, and Why You Cannot Predict

    Mujo, the turning of the wheel of the law, teaches that change is inevitable, unpredictable, and uncontrollable, and that humans must accommodate it rather than try to control it. Marks pairs this with his deep belief in the independence of events: ten heads in a row do not change the odds on flip eleven. Roughly 20 years ago he wrote a memo titled “You Can’t Predict. You Can Prepare.” A portfolio cannot be optimized for both extreme upside and extreme downside, but it can be built to perform respectably across many possible futures, if you suboptimize for the middle of the probability distribution.

    Why Cycles Exist

    If GDP averages 2% growth, why is it never simply 2%? Marks’s answer is excesses and corrections. Optimism leads producers to overbuild and consumers to overspend, growth runs above trend, then satiation and oversupply pull it back below trend. The S&P 500 averages 10% per year over a century, but the return in any given year is almost never between 8% and 12%. The norm is not the average because human beings are not average; they are alternately greedy and fearful.

    Where Are We Now?

    Two years ago Marks told the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund’s Nicolai Tangen that we were near the middle of the cycle. Two years later, the bull market in stocks continued through January 2026, so by simple math the recovery is older. The COVID recession was a man-made anomaly: one quarter of negative growth followed by the best quarter in history, triggered by a deliberate global shutdown rather than by accumulated excess. That distorts every traditional cycle metric.

    Drifting Versus Seeing the River

    One of the most personal moments in the conversation is Marks’s confession that he drifted for the first 35 years of his career. He did not pick his career, his first job, or his transition from equities to bonds in any deliberate way. Other people pushed him; he said yes. The first proactive decision of his life was co-founding Oaktree in 1995 at age 49, and even that came largely because his wife and his partner Bruce Karsh pushed him into it. Once he had to lead, he had to be intentional. Leadership cannot be passive.

    The Bond Decision

    Marks did not choose bonds; bonds chose him. In May 1978 his boss at Citibank moved him to the bond department to start a convertible fund. Three months later another phone call asked him to figure out something called high-yield bonds being run by a guy in California named Milken. Marks said yes both times. He arrived at the front of the line for high-yield in 1978 and has been there for 48 years.

    The conservative temperament fit. Marks’s parents were adults during the Depression, so he grew up hearing “don’t put all your eggs in one basket” and “save for a rainy day.” Bonds offered contractual, predictable returns. The phrase “junk bonds” was a bias that made the asset class cheaply available to anyone willing to do the analytical work.

    Distressed Debt and Excess Return

    When Bruce Karsh joined in 1987, Oaktree launched what Marks believes was the first distressed debt fund from a mainstream institution. Karsh has managed about $70 billion since 1988 with well over 90% of the total being profit. The core skill is predicting default probability better than the market. If consensus prices a borrower at a 5% default risk and you correctly assess 2%, the interest you receive is overpaid relative to actual risk. Marks calls this “excess return” and credits Mike Milken with the foundational insight: lend to borrowers others will not, demand interest beyond what compensates you, and the math works.

    Over 40 years, roughly 3.6% to 3.7% of high-yield bonds default annually on average. Oaktree’s default rate has been roughly one-third of that. Marks credits institutional culture (analysts who stay analysts for life), psychological stability in volatile periods, and a process that forces every analyst to ask the same eight questions of every company every time. In equity research, you can buy a stock for great management without examining the product, or for a great product without examining the management. In Oaktree’s bond process, you cover every base every time.

    Beginning a Career Today: The AI Question

    Asked what he would do today, Marks says the front of the line is AI. The investor who will succeed most over the next decade is the one who best understands AI, whether they bet for or against it. He notes that he was shocked by his own experience using Claude, but adds that he has not fired a single person and does not intend to.

    His view: AI excels at extracting patterns from history and applying them with discipline and without psychological wobble. But investing also requires creating new patterns. Can AI sit with five business plans and identify the future Amazon? Can it sit with five CEOs and pick Steve Jobs? Marks bets not. Then he adds the killer line: most humans cannot either. Which means the role for exceptional humans survives, but the bar gets higher.

    Why Indexation Won

    When Marks went to graduate school at the University of Chicago in 1968, his professor pointed out that most mutual funds underperformed the S&P after fees. Index funds did not exist yet; Jack Bogle launched the first one in 1974. Today, most equity mutual fund capital is passive. Marks’s controversial take: indexation did not win because it is great. It won because active management was so bad and so expensive. Even at equal fees, if active decisions are inferior, passive wins.

    Bad times create openings for active managers because panic drives prices down, but the same panic prevents most people from buying. Marks quotes the old trader Wally Deemer: when the time comes to buy, you will not want to. The advantage of an AI nudge that says “this is one of those moments, get your ass in gear and buy something” might genuinely add value, because it removes the emotion.

    Second-Level Thinking and Why You Cannot Coach It

    Marks’s first book, The Most Important Thing, has 21 chapters, each titled “The Most Important Thing Is…” Each one is different because so many things matter. The chapter on second-level thinking came to him spontaneously while writing a sample chapter for Columbia University Press. The argument is simple: if you think like everyone else, you act like everyone else, and you get the same results. To outperform, you must deviate from the herd and be more right than the herd. Different is not enough. Different and better is the bar.

    Can AI become a contrarian thinker? You can prompt Claude to give you only non-consensus answers, but the catch is that consensus is often close to right because the people building consensus are intelligent, educated, computer-literate, and motivated. Forcing non-consensus often forces wrong. The real edge is being non-consensus AND correct, which is a much narrower target.

    The $10 Bill That Nobody Has Picked Up

    Marks references the joke about the efficient market hypothesis: there is no $10 bill on the sidewalk because if there were, somebody would have already picked it up. He then concedes that the bill is probably around AI today, but only for those whose insight rises above the average. If you are average and you crowd into AI, you go along with the tide if it works and get crushed if it does not. Quoting Garrison Keillor’s Lake Wobegon, “where all the children are above average,” Marks notes that the math does not allow it. Most investors will not be above average, and acknowledging that is the first step toward becoming one of the few who are.

    Learning From Andrew, Buffett, and Onion-Skin Manuals

    Marks lived with his son Andrew during COVID and wrote a memo about it called “Something of Value” in January 2021. Andrew’s most important contribution was a near-revelation: readily available quantitative information about the present cannot be the source of investment alpha because everyone has it. Buffett’s edge in the 1950s was reading Moody’s Manuals (giant books printed on onion-skin paper with tiny type and zero narrative) when nobody else would. The medium changes; the principle that edge requires doing what others will not, does not.

    India

    Kamath asks Marks directly about India. Marks has deployed roughly $4 billion there but politely declines to claim any expertise on the Indian stock market or recommend a sector. He cautions Kamath about taking advice from people who do not know what they are talking about, and includes himself in that category on the question of India. The honesty is striking and is itself an investment lesson.

    History Rhymes, and Final Advice

    Marks reads Andrew Ross Sorkin’s 1929 and references it in an upcoming memo on private credit. He likes Mark Twain’s reputed line that history does not repeat but it rhymes, and Napoleon’s line that history is written by the winners of tomorrow. The lessons that rhyme are lessons of human nature, which evolves incredibly slowly. Fight or flight from the watering hole still drives behavior in financial markets.

    His final advice: investing is a puzzle, not engineering. A civil engineer calculates steel and concrete, builds the bridge, and the bridge stands. Every time. A dentist fills the cavity correctly and it stays filled. Every time. If you need that kind of reliability in your work, become a dentist. Investing is the act of positioning capital for a future that cannot be predicted accurately. You will be wrong sometimes. If something in your makeup cannot tolerate being wrong sometimes, do not become an investor. The puzzle has no final solution, which is exactly what makes it endlessly interesting.

    Thoughts

    The most useful thing Marks does in this conversation is admit, repeatedly and without ego, what he does not know. He does not know whether AI models differ in real intelligence. He does not know which sector in India to bet on. He does not know how to teach second-level thinking. He drifted for 35 years and only began making intentional decisions at 49. This honesty is the inverse of every guru selling certainty, and it is the actual content of the lesson he is trying to convey: epistemic humility is the precondition for superior insight, because you cannot acquire what you already think you have.

    The deepest insight in the conversation might be the one Andrew Marks (Howard’s son) gave his father during COVID: readily available quantitative information about the present cannot produce alpha because everyone has it. This is devastating in the AI era. If everyone is asking the same large language model the same question, the answers converge, and convergence is consensus, and consensus does not pay. The arms race for proprietary data, novel framings, and unconventional questions is the only thing that can break the convergence.

    Marks’s framing of cycles as excesses and corrections rather than ups and downs is genuinely useful. It reframes volatility from something to fear into something to expect, and reframes the question from “where are we going?” to “how far past trend have we already gone?” The 8 to 12 percent observation about the S&P (that the average return is almost never the actual return) is the kind of fact that should be taught in every introductory finance class but is almost never mentioned.

    The most contrarian claim in the conversation is the one about indexation: that it won because active was bad, not because passive is great. This is a useful inversion. Most defenders of passive investing argue from efficient market theory; Marks argues from the empirical failure of active managers. The implication is that if you can find the small population of active managers who genuinely outperform, the indexation argument falls apart for that subset. Most cannot. The hardest job in investing is the meta-job of identifying the few who can.

    The exchange about AI as a contrarian engine is one of the most clarifying short discussions of AI’s investment limits I have read. Different from consensus is easy. Different and better is the actual goal. Forcing different gets you wrong more often than right because consensus, built by smart, motivated, educated competitors, is usually close to correct. This is why “use AI to find non-consensus ideas” is a worse strategy than it sounds.

    Finally, the Buffett-Moody’s-Manual story is the most quietly profound moment in the interview. The edge in 1955 was the willingness to read tiny type on onion-skin paper alone in an office in Omaha when no one else would. The edge in 2026 is whatever the modern equivalent of that is, and the only honest answer is: nobody knows yet, which is precisely why finding it is worth so much money.

  • Elad Gil on the AI Frontier: Compute Constraints, the Personal IPO, and Why Most AI Founders Should Sell in the Next 12 to 18 Months

    Elad Gil sat down with Tim Ferriss for a wide ranging conversation that pairs almost perfectly with his recent Substack post Random thoughts while gazing at the misty AI Frontier. Together, the podcast and the post lay out the cleanest framework I have seen for what is actually happening in AI right now: a Korean memory bottleneck capping every lab, a class wide personal IPO across the research community, the fastest revenue ramps in capitalist history, and a brutal dot com style culling that most founders do not yet want to admit is coming. Below is a complete breakdown.

    TLDW (Too Long, Didn’t Watch)

    Elad Gil argues that AI is producing the fastest revenue ramps in capitalist history while setting up the same brutal power law that wiped out 99 percent of dot com companies. OpenAI and Anthropic each sit at roughly 0.1 percent of US GDP today, on a path to 1 percent of GDP run rate by end of 2026, which is insanely fast by any historical standard. The current ceiling on capabilities is not chips but Korean high bandwidth memory, and that constraint will likely hold all major labs roughly comparable in capability through 2028. Talent has just experienced a class wide personal IPO via Meta led bidding, with packages running tens to hundreds of millions per researcher. Most AI companies should consider exiting in the next 12 to 18 months while the tide is high. Right now consensus is correct. Save the contrarianism for later.

    Key Takeaways

    • OpenAI and Anthropic are each at roughly 0.1 percent of US GDP. With US GDP near 30 trillion dollars and each lab at a roughly 30 billion dollar revenue run rate, AI has gone from essentially zero to 0.25 to 0.5 percent of GDP in just a few years. If the labs hit 100 billion in run rate by year end 2026 (which many expect), AI hits 1 percent of GDP run rate inside a single year.
    • The AI personal IPO is real. 50 to a few hundred AI researchers across multiple companies just experienced a class wide IPO event due to Meta led bidding, with top packages reportedly tens to hundreds of millions per person. The closest historical analog is early crypto holders around 2017.
    • The bottleneck is Korean memory, not Nvidia chips. High bandwidth memory from Hynix, Samsung, Micron, and others is the binding constraint. Expected to hold roughly two years. After that, power and data center buildout become the next walls.
    • No lab can pull dramatically ahead before 2028. Because every lab is compute constrained on the same input, OpenAI, Anthropic, Google, xAI, and Meta should remain roughly comparable in capability through that window, absent an algorithmic breakthrough that stays inside one lab.
    • Compute is the new currency. Token budgets now define what an engineer can accomplish, what a company can spend, and what business models are viable. Some companies (neoclouds, Cursor) are effectively inference providers disguised as tools.
    • The dot com base rate is the AI base rate. Around 1,500 to 2,000 companies went public in the late 1990s internet cycle. A dozen or two survived. AI will likely look the same.
    • Most AI founders should consider selling in the next 12 to 18 months. If you are not in the durable handful, this is your value maximizing window. A handful of companies (OpenAI, Anthropic) should never sell.
    • Buyers are bigger than ever. One percent of a 3 trillion dollar market cap is 30 billion dollars. That math makes massive AI acquisitions trivial for hyperscalers, vertical incumbents, and adjacent giants.
    • Underrated exit path: merger of equals. Two private AI competitors destroying each other on price should consider just merging. PayPal and X.com did exactly this in the 1990s.
    • 91 percent of global AI private market cap sits in a 10 by 10 mile square. If you want to do AI, move to the Bay Area. Remote work for cluster industries is BS.
    • Want money? Ask for advice. Want advice? Ask for money. The inverse also works: offering useful advice frequently leads to inbound investment opportunities.
    • AI is selling units of labor, not software. The shift is from selling seats and tools to selling cognitive output. This is why Harvey can win in legal, where decades of legal SaaS failed.
    • AI eats closed loops first. Tasks that can be turned into testable closed loop systems (code, AI research) get automated fastest. Map jobs on a 2×2 of closed loop tightness vs economic value to see where AI hits soonest.
    • Headcount will flatten at later stage companies. Multiple late stage CEOs told Elad they will not do big AI layoffs but will simply stop growing headcount even as revenue grows 30 to 100 percent. Hidden layoffs are also hitting outsourcing firms in India and the Philippines first.
    • The Slop Age could be the golden era of AI plus humanity. AI produces useful slop at volume, humans desloppify it, leverage is high, and the work is fun. This window may close as AI gets superhuman.
    • Market first, team second (90 percent of the time). Great teams die in bad markets. The exception is when you meet someone truly exceptional at the very earliest stage.
    • The one belief framework. If your investment memo needs three core beliefs to be true, it is too complicated. Coinbase was an index on crypto. Stripe was an index on e-commerce. That was the entire memo.
    • The four year vest is a relic. It exists because in the 1970s companies actually went public in four years. Today the private window has stretched to 20 years and venture has eaten what used to be public market growth investing.
    • Boards are in-laws. You cannot fire investor board members. Take a worse price for a better board member, because as Naval Ravikant said, valuation is temporary, control is forever.
    • Right now, consensus is correct. Save the contrarianism. The smart move is to just buy more AI exposure rather than try to outsmart the obvious.
    • Distribution wins more than founders admit. Google paid hundreds of millions to push the toolbar. Facebook bought ads on people’s own names in Europe. TikTok spent billions on user acquisition. Allbirds (yes, the shoe company) just raised a convert to build a GPU farm.
    • Anti-AI sentiment will get worse before it gets better. Maine banned new data centers. There has been violence directed at AI leaders. Expect more political and activist backlash, especially as AI is blamed for harms it has not yet caused while its benefits are mismeasured.
    • Use AI as a cold reader. Elad uploads photos of founders to AI models with cold reading prompts and reports surprisingly accurate personality assessments based on micro features.

    Detailed Summary

    The Numbers Are Insane and Mostly Underappreciated

    The most stunning data point in either source is the GDP math. US GDP is roughly 30 trillion dollars. OpenAI and Anthropic are each rumored to be at roughly 30 billion dollars in revenue run rate, putting each one at 0.1 percent of US GDP. Add cloud AI revenue and the picture gets stranger: AI has grown from essentially zero to between 0.25 and 0.5 percent of GDP in only a few years. If the labs hit 100 billion in run rate by year end 2026, AI will be at roughly 1 percent of GDP run rate inside a single year. There is no historical analog for that pace. Elad notes that productivity gains from AI may end up mismeasured the way internet productivity was undercounted in the 2000s, which would have downstream consequences for regulation: AI gets blamed for the bad (job losses) and credited for none of the good (new jobs, education gains, healthcare improvements). His half joking aside is that the real ASI test may be the ability to actually measure AI’s economic impact.

    The AI Personal IPO

    The most underdiscussed phenomenon in AI right now, according to Elad, is what he calls a class wide personal IPO. When a company IPOs, a subset of employees become wealthy, lose focus, and either start companies, get into politics, fund passion projects, or check out. Meta started aggressively bidding for AI talent. Other major labs had to match. The result was 50 to a few hundred researchers, scattered across multiple labs, suddenly receiving compensation in the tens to hundreds of millions of dollars range. The only historical analog Elad can think of is early crypto holders around 2017. Some chunk of these newly wealthy researchers will redirect attention to AI for science, side projects, or quiet quitting. The aggregate field stays mission aligned, but the distribution of attention has shifted.

    The Korean Memory Bottleneck

    Every major AI lab today is building giant Nvidia clusters paired with high bandwidth memory primarily from Korean fabs and a few other suppliers. They run massive amounts of data through these clusters for months, and the output is, almost absurdly, a single flat file containing what amounts to a compressed version of human knowledge plus reasoning. Right now, the binding constraint on this whole stack is HBM memory from Hynix, Samsung, Micron, and others. Korean memory fab capacity has been below the capacity of every other piece of the system. Elad estimates this constraint persists for roughly two years. After that, the next walls are likely data center construction and power. The strategic implication is enormous. While memory constrains everyone, no single lab can buy 10x the compute of its rivals, so capabilities should stay roughly comparable across the major labs. Once that constraint lifts, possibly around 2028, one player could theoretically pull dramatically ahead, especially if AI assisted AI research closes a self improvement loop inside one lab.

    Compute Is the New Currency

    The blog post sharpens a framing that runs throughout the podcast: compute, denominated in tokens, is now a unit of economic value. Token budgets define what an engineer can accomplish, what a company can spend, and what business models work. Some companies are effectively inference providers wearing tool costumes. Neoclouds are the cleanest example. Cursor is another, subsidizing inference as a user acquisition strategy. The most absurd recent example: Allbirds, the shoe company, raised a convertible to build a GPU farm. Whether this becomes the AI version of Microstrategy’s Bitcoin trade or a cautionary tale, it tells you where the cost of capital believes the next decade is going.

    The Dot Com Survival Math

    Elad walks through the brutal arithmetic that AI founders should be internalizing. In the late 1990s and early 2000s, somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 internet companies went public. Of those, roughly a dozen or two survived in any meaningful form. Every cycle has looked like this: automotive in the early 1900s, SaaS, mobile, crypto. There is no reason AI will be different. Most current AI companies, including those ramping revenue today, will see the market, competition, and adoption turn on them. The question every AI founder should be asking is whether they are in the durable handful or not.

    Most AI Companies Should Consider Exiting in the Next 12 to 18 Months

    This is the most actionable and most uncomfortable take in either source. While the tide is rising, every AI company looks unstoppable. Whether they actually are, in a 10 year frame, is a separate question. Founders running successful AI companies should take a cold honest look at whether the next 12 to 18 months is their value maximizing window. Companies typically have a 6 to 12 month peak before some headwind hits, often visible in the second derivative of growth. The best signal that you should sell is when growth rate is starting to plateau and you can see why. A handful of companies (OpenAI, Anthropic, the durable winners) should never exit. Many others should, while everything is still on the upswing.

    What Makes an AI Company Durable

    Elad lays out four lenses for evaluating durability at the application layer:

    1. Does your product get dramatically better when the underlying model gets better, in a way that keeps customers loyal?
    2. How deep and broad is the product? Are you building multiple integrated products embedded in actual workflows?
    3. Are you embedded in real change management at the customer? AI adoption is mostly a workflow change problem, not a tech problem. Workflow embedding is durable.
    4. Are you capturing and using proprietary data in a way that creates a system of record? Data moats are often overstated, but sometimes real.

    At the lab layer, Elad believes OpenAI, Anthropic, and Google are durable absent disaster. He predicted three years ago that the foundation model market would settle into an oligopoly aligned with cloud, and that prediction has roughly held.

    Selling Work, Not Software

    The deepest structural insight in the conversation is that generative AI is shifting what software companies sell. The old model was selling seats, tools, and SaaS subscriptions. The new model is selling units of cognitive labor. Zendesk sold seats to support reps. Decagon and Sierra sell agentic support output. Harvey can win in legal even though selling to law firms was historically considered terrible business, because Harvey is not selling tools, it is augmenting lawyer output. This shift opens markets that were previously closed and dramatically grows tech TAMs. It is also why founder limited theories of entrepreneurship currently understate how many opportunities exist.

    AI Eats Closed Loops First

    One of the cleanest mental models in the blog post is the closed loop framework. AI automates first what can be turned into a testable closed loop. Code is the canonical example: outputs can be tested, errors detected, models can iterate. AI research is similar. Both have tight feedback loops and high economic value, which puts them at the top of the AI impact ranking. Map jobs on a 2×2 of closed loop tightness vs economic value and you can see where AI hits soonest. The interesting forward question is which jobs become more closed loop next. Data collection and labeling will keep growing in every field as a result.

    The Harness Matters More Than People Think

    For coding tools and increasingly for enterprise applications, what Elad calls the harness, the wrapper of UX, prompting, workflow integration, and brand around the underlying model, is becoming sticky. It is not just which model you call. It is the environment built around it. Cursor and Windsurf demonstrate this in coding. The interesting open questions are what the harness looks like for sales AI, for AI architects, for analyst workflows. Those gaps leave room for startups even as model capabilities converge.

    Hidden Layoffs and the Developing World

    Most announced AI driven layoffs are probably just COVID era overhiring corrections wrapped in a more flattering narrative. But real AI driven labor displacement is happening, and it is hitting outsourcing firms first. That means countries like India and the Philippines, where many outsourced services jobs sit, are likely to be the most impacted earliest. Several developing economies built their growth ladders on services exports. If AI takes those jobs first, the migration and economic patterns of the next decade may shift in ways nobody is yet planning for.

    The Flat Company

    Multiple late stage CEOs told Elad they will not announce big AI layoffs. Instead, they will simply stop growing headcount. If revenue grows 30 to 100 percent, headcount stays flat or shrinks via attrition. Existing employees become dramatically more productive. The very best people who can leverage AI will see compensation inflate. Sales and some growth engineering keep hiring. Almost everything else flatlines. This is mostly a later stage and public company phenomenon. True early stage startups should still scale aggressively after product market fit, just with more leverage per person.

    Exit Options for AI Founders

    Elad lays out four exit categories. First, the labs and hyperscalers themselves: Apple, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Meta. Second, vertical incumbents like Thomson Reuters for legal or healthcare giants for clinical AI. Third, the underrated category of merger of equals between two private AI competitors who are currently destroying each other on price. PayPal and X.com did this in the 1990s. Uber and Lyft reportedly almost did. Fourth, large adjacent tech companies: Oracle, Samsung, Tesla, SpaceX, Snowflake, Databricks, Stripe, Coinbase. The market cap math has changed in a way that makes acquisition trivial. One percent of a three trillion dollar market cap is 30 billion dollars, which means a hyperscaler can do massive acquisitions almost casually.

    Geographic Concentration Is Extreme

    Elad’s team analyzed where private market cap aggregates. Historically half of global tech private market cap sat in the US, with half of that in the Bay Area. With AI, 91 percent of global AI private market cap is in a single 10 by 10 mile square in the Bay Area. New York is a distant second and then it falls off a cliff. For defense tech, the cluster is Southern California (SpaceX, Anduril, El Segundo, Irvine). Fintech and crypto skew toward New York. The remote everywhere advice is, Elad says, just BS for anyone trying to break into an industry cluster.

    How Elad Got Into His Best Deals

    Stripe started with Elad cold emailing Patrick Collison after selling an API company to Twitter. A couple of walks later, Patrick texted that he was raising and Elad was in. Airbnb came from helping the founders raise their Series A and being asked at the end if he wanted to invest. Anduril came from noticing that Google had shut down Project Maven and asking if anyone was building defense tech, then meeting Trey Stephens at a Founders Fund lunch. Perplexity came from Aravind Srinivas cold messaging him on LinkedIn while still at OpenAI. Across all of these, the pattern is the same: be in the cluster, be helpful, be talking publicly about technology nobody else is talking about, and be useful to founders before any money is on the table.

    The One Belief Framework

    Investors love complicated 50 page memos. Elad believes the actual decision usually collapses into a single core belief. Coinbase: this is an index on crypto, and crypto will keep growing. Stripe: this is an index on e-commerce, and e-commerce will keep growing. Anduril: AI plus drones plus a cost plus model will be important for defense. If your thesis needs three things to be true, it is probably not going to work. If it needs nothing, you have no thesis.

    Boards as In-Laws

    Elad emphasizes that founders should treat board composition like one of the most important hiring decisions of the company. You cannot fire an investor board member. They have contractual rights. So if you are going to be stuck with someone for a decade, take a worse valuation for a better human. Reid Hoffman’s framing is that the best board member is a co-founder you could not have otherwise hired. Naval Ravikant’s framing is that valuation is temporary but control is forever. Elad recommends writing a job spec for every board seat.

    The Slop Age as a Golden Era

    One of the warmest takes in the blog post is the framing of the current moment as the Slop Age, and the suggestion that this might actually be the golden era of AI plus humanity. Before the last few years, AI was inaccessible and narrow. Eventually AI may become superhuman at most tasks. Today, AI produces useful slop at volume, which means humans are still needed to desloppify the slop, but the leverage on time and ambition is real. That makes the work fun. If AI displaces people or starts doing more interesting work, this golden moment fades. Elad also notes the obvious counter, that the era of human generated internet slop preceded the AI slop era. AGI may end the slop age, or alternately may be the thing that finally cleans up all the prior waves of human slop.

    Anti-AI Regulation and Violence Will Increase

    This is one of the more sobering threads in the blog post. Real world AI driven labor displacement has been small so far, but anti-AI sentiment is already strong and growing. Maine just banned new data centers. There has been actual violence directed at AI leaders, including a recent attack on Sam Altman. Elad’s view is that AI leaders should work harder on optimistic public framing, real political lobbying, and reining in the doom narrative coming from inside the field. Otherwise the regulatory and activist backlash will get much worse, and likely on the basis of mismeasured impacts.

    Right Now Consensus Is Correct

    The headline contrarian take from the episode is that contrarianism right now is wrong. There are moments in time when betting against the crowd pays. This is not one of them. The smart bet is just buying more AI exposure. Trying to find the clever angle, the underlooked hardware play, the secret macro thesis, is overthinking it. Save the contrarian moves for later in the cycle.

    Distribution Almost Always Matters

    Elad pushes back on the founder mythology that great products win on their own. Google paid hundreds of millions of dollars in the early 2000s to distribute its toolbar through every popular app installer on the internet. Facebook bought search ads against people’s own names in European markets to seed network liquidity. TikTok spent billions on user acquisition before its algorithm could lock people in. Snowflake spent enormous sums on enterprise sales and channel partnerships. Sometimes the best product wins. Often the company with the best distribution wins. Founders should plan for both.

    AI as a Cold Reader and a Research Partner

    Two of the more practical AI workflows Elad describes: First, uploading photos of founders to AI models with cold reading prompts that ask the model to identify micro features (crows feet from genuine smiling, brow patterns, posture cues) and infer personality traits, sense of humor, and likely social behavior. He reports the outputs are surprisingly specific. Second, running deep dives across multiple models in parallel (Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini), asking each for primary sources, summary tables, and cross checked data. He recently used this approach to investigate the rise in autism and ADHD diagnoses, concluding that diagnostic criteria shifts and school incentives drive most of it, and noting that maternal age has a stronger statistical association with autism than paternal age, despite paternal age getting all the public discourse.

    The First Ever 10 Year Plan

    For someone who has been compounding aggressively for two decades, Elad has somehow never written a 10 year plan until now. He knows it will not play out as written. The point is that the act of imagining a decade out shifts what you choose to do in the near term. He explicitly rejects the AGI in two years therefore plans are pointless framing as defeatist. There will be interesting things to do regardless of how the AGI timeline plays out.

    Thoughts

    This is one of the more useful AI investor conversations of 2026, mostly because Elad is willing to put numbers and timelines on things that are usually left vague. Pairing the podcast with the underlying Substack post is the right move because the post is where the GDP math, the closed loop framework, and the Slop Age framing actually live. The podcast is where Elad explains how he thinks rather than just what he thinks.

    The 12 to 18 month sell window framing is the most actionable single idea in either source, and probably the most uncomfortable for AI founders sitting on multi billion dollar paper valuations. The math is unforgiving. A dozen winners out of thousands. If you are honest with yourself about whether you are in the dozen, you know what to do.

    The Korean memory bottleneck framing explains a lot of current behavior. The talent wars make more sense once you accept that compute is not going to be the differentiator for two years, so people become the only remaining lever. The convergence of capabilities across OpenAI, Anthropic, Google, and xAI starts to look less like coincidence and more like the structural inevitability of a supply constrained input. The 2028 inflection date is the one to watch.

    Compute as currency is the cleanest reframing in the blog post. Once you start pricing companies in tokens rather than dollars, everything from Cursor’s economics to Allbirds raising a convert to build a GPU farm becomes legible. The interesting question is whether this is a permanent unit of denomination or a transitional one that fades when inference costs collapse.

    The software to labor argument is the structural framing that I think will hold up the longest. Once you internalize that we are not selling seats anymore but selling cognitive output, every vertical that was previously locked behind ugly procurement and IT inertia opens up. Harvey is the proof of concept. There will be 30 more Harveys across every white collar profession.

    The closed loop framework is the cleanest predictor of which jobs get hit hardest and soonest. If you want to know whether your role is exposed, the questions to ask are whether outputs can be machine evaluated, how tight the feedback loop is, and how high the economic value is. The intersection is where AI lands first.

    The geographic concentration data is genuinely shocking. 91 percent of global AI private market cap in a 10 by 10 mile area is the kind of statistic that should make everyone outside that square think very carefully about what game they are playing.

    The Slop Age framing is the most emotionally honest moment in the post. We are in a window where humans still meaningfully add value on top of AI output. That window is finite. Enjoy it.

    The anti-AI backlash thread is the one I think most people in the industry are still underweighting. Maine banning new data centers is a leading indicator, not a one off. The fact that the impacts are likely to be mismeasured by official statistics makes the political dynamics worse, not better. AI will get blamed for harms it did not cause and credited for none of the gains. If the field’s leaders do not start communicating better and lobbying smarter, the regulatory environment in 2028 will be much worse than in 2026.

    Finally, Elad’s first ever 10 year plan stands out as the most quietly important moment in the episode. The implicit message is that even people who have been compounding aggressively for two decades benefit from forcing a longer time horizon onto their thinking. Most plans fail. The act of planning still changes what you do today.

    Read the original Elad Gil post here: Random thoughts while gazing at the misty AI Frontier. Find Elad on X at @eladgil, on his Substack at blog.eladgil.com, and on his website at eladgil.com. Tim Ferriss publishes the full episode at tim.blog/podcast.

  • Nicolai Tangen on Managing the World’s Largest Sovereign Wealth Fund: Insights from The David Rubenstein Show

    Nicolai Tangen isn’t your typical financial titan. On February 20, 2025, he sat down with David Rubenstein on “The David Rubenstein Show: Peer-to-Peer Conversations,” filmed a month earlier at the Bloomberg House in Davos. As CEO of Norges Bank Investment Management, Tangen runs the world’s largest sovereign wealth fund—$1.8 trillion strong, dwarfing all others. The episode, already at 7,983 views on YouTube, pulls back the curtain on a guy who traded hedge fund glory for a shot at serving Norway. Here’s what he revealed.

    The fund, nicknamed the “Oil Fund,” owes its existence to a frigid night in 1969. Phillips Petroleum hit the jackpot on the Norwegian Shelf, striking the biggest offshore oil find ever at the time. Tangen recounted the moment: a 2 a.m. wake-up call to the Ocean Viking platform chief, followed by a Christmas Eve announcement that changed Norway forever. Started in 1996 with 2 billion Norwegian kroner, it’s now a 20-trillion-kroner behemoth, funding 20-25% of the country’s budget thanks to a strict 3% spending cap. Tangen’s job? Steer this giant, owning chunks of over 9,000 companies worldwide, through calm and chaos alike.

    His approach is steady, not sexy. “You want to be widely diversified,” he told Rubenstein. Tactical bets are a nightmare with a fund this size, so he preaches spreading the risk—across assets, across borders. He’s a contrarian at heart, eyeing beaten-down Chinese stocks while others chase U.S. tech. AI’s been a goldmine, with American tech giants padding the fund’s returns and his team boasting a 15% efficiency bump from new tools. But he’s not blind to today’s risks. With Trump in office, Tangen sees U.S. deregulation juicing short-term gains, offset by tariff pain for Europe and inflation threats from tight labor and big debt.

    Pressure’s a constant companion. The fund’s value ticks live on its website—13 updates a second—and Norway’s 5 million citizens watch closely. “There’s always something going wrong somewhere,” Tangen said, shrugging off the endless gripes about too much of this stock or too little of that. He’s applied for another five-year term, banking on his team’s track record and a push for transparency that’s made Norges the most open fund globally. ESG? Still a priority in Norway, despite America’s cooling on it. His worries keep him up at night: inflation spikes or a wild-card disaster—think Covid or a nuclear mess.

    Tangen’s path to this gig is a hell of a tale. Born in Kristiansand, he studied Russian in Norway’s intelligence service before landing at Wharton, where humility took a backseat to world-conquering bravado. He built AKO Capital into a $20 billion hedge fund powerhouse, then walked away, handing his stake to a charitable foundation and joining the Giving Pledge with a billion-plus net worth. “Happiness is about learning,” he said, rejecting the chase for more cash. “The person with the most money when they die has lost.” Now, he skis, picks wild mushrooms for chanterelle spaghetti, and dreams of another degree—maybe not art history, since he bombed that once.

    This isn’t just a finance story—it’s a human one. Tangen’s a rarity: a guy who’s crushed it in the cutthroat private sector, then pivoted to public service without losing his soul. The full interview’s on YouTube (catch it here), and it’s worth every minute. From oil rigs to AI, from Oslo to Davos, he’s proof you can manage a fortune and still keep your feet on the ground.